This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von

#674 - Scott Payne

with Scott Payne
10 Aug 2026 5 min read 1h 10m

Scott Payne spent 28 years in law enforcement, most of it undercover, and argues that budget cuts to training — not bad officers — are the root cause of most line-of-duty deaths and tactical failures. His friend Russell Sorrow was killed in broad daylight after receiving no active-shooter-style tactical training, a preventable death Payne now tries to stop through ALERRT instruction. The FBI's strength, he says, is its radical diversity of recruits — former Walmart managers, CPAs, doctors — not just cops and military.

Scott Payne
“First responders — and I include medic, fire, and military — if we're not number one, we're very high for divorce, suicide, substance abuse, and dying within 5 years after retiring.”
Payne describing the hidden toll of trauma accumulation on first responders when discussing how cops compartmentalize what they see.
▶ 4:31
Scott Payne
“He chases him into a building, somebody clocks him in the head with a board, and he sees the guy running. He ran right past the bad guy and the guy shot him in the back, and when he went down he walked up and shot him three times directly in the back of the head.”
Payne recounting the line-of-duty death of his friend Russell Sorrow, which he attributes directly to lack of tactical training.
▶ 6:19
Scott Payne
“Hey, can you hear the sound of my voice? And everybody raises their hand. It's not the helmet, it's your stress.”
Payne describing a stress inoculation drill where officers in full tactical gear can't hear — revealing it's psychological, not equipment.
▶ 8:12
Scott Payne
“There's so many videos I can show you, military and law enforcement, where the officer has no idea how many rounds they've shot, no idea that they did a magazine exchange, but they did it because they trained.”
Payne explaining how muscle memory under stress works — trained actions happen without conscious recall.
▶ 8:26
Scott Payne
“One of my best friends that went through the academy with me, he was a former Walmart manager and he smoked the fitness test and he was a great agent.”
Payne illustrating how radically diverse FBI recruits are — not just cops and military.
▶ 18:37
Scott Payne is a retired FBI Special Agent with 28 years in law enforcement, much of it spent undercover infiltrating motorcycle gangs, drug traffickers, cartels, and white supremacist groups. He is the author of 'Code Name Pale Horse: How I Went Undercover to Expose America's Nazis.' Payne began his career at the Greenville County Sheriff's Office before joining the FBI, where he also served on SWAT. He now works as a tactical instructor with ALERRT, the national standard for active shooter response training.
1
Stress blocks hearing — not your gear During ALERRT force-on-force drills, officers in full tactical helmets and masks report they 'couldn't hear anything' — but when asked before the drill starts if they can hear, everyone raises their hand. Payne's point: the equipment isn't the problem, acute stress is. This is why stress inoculation training (bleeding on the range) is the only real fix.
2
Budget cuts kill cops, not bad tactics Payne's friend Russell Sorrow was killed in broad daylight because his department had no tactical training for foot pursuits — a preventable death. Payne argues training is almost always the first line item cut when budgets tighten, which is precisely when it matters most. The cost of not training shows up later as fatalities, not line items.
3
Physical fitness speeds adrenaline recovery Studies cited by Payne show that better physical conditioning leads to faster recovery from adrenaline dumps — the fight-or-flight surge that slows time perception, causes auditory exclusion, and redirects blood flow away from digestion. This means fitness isn't just about strength for law enforcement; it's about how quickly you can return to clear thinking after a crisis.